Lou: In doing research we discovered you were a force in terms of wine in Europe.

Tomas: What happened about wine with me, has placed me in a perceptive position to create Tequila Ocho. I lived in Europe for 27 years, in Holland, which has a real appreciation for wine, for 10 years. I lived in France, right outside of Paris, for 16 years and 1 year in London. During the time that I was living in France, we would go every year on a pilgrimage, in fact I still do it. We've  done it 19 times. We go down in the late spring to taste wines out of the barrel and buy them. I used to invest pretty well in wines in what they call 'en primeur.'

We would visit notably Votto Manet? There's a producer there called Bruno Cleviegneit In fact I've been doing it so long I used to visit his grandfather and father. Having soaked myself so deeply into the wine culture, I was quite aware having been up in the fields and having Bruno & Frank say to me, "Right here we're in a Grand Cru, one meter behind us is a Premier Cru. Over there is a Village wine and over there is generic wine."

I took this sort of wine interest of mine, let's call it fascination, took that while studying and being in the tequila culture. I realized at one point there was terroir (in tequila). There was a certain generalized terroir being acknowledged on part of the tequila community. Community meaning the growers, the producers and all the people who pay attention to it like me. 
The largest perception was for me then, in the tequila valley we've got lots of agave grown and lots of tequila being made, especially by the large producers. People were agreeing that the agaves grown there used to produce tequila have a certain taste profile. In wine terms they'd be called masculine, otherwise we could say they are forward, somewhat aggressive, earthy and somewhat herbal.

I found the word agavacious, a new term. I found it out there while researching this article.

Wow, that is a good term Lou.

I can't take credit for it. It was used in tasting notes with regard to Plata.

I am fascinated by seeing how clever people can convert sensations in their nose, aromas and on their palate, into words. It's amazing how talented some people are. Then people were saying in relation to the tequila valley, the highland tequilas are more femenine, more receptive, let's use wine terms, fruitier, more floral.  
I got the opportunity to create my own brand, talking to the Camerenas Family, they are third generation tequila producers. Their other brands are Topateo in Mexico and Tsaro here in the United States. When the Camerenas decided they wanted to partner with me to make tequila, I started thinking we've got a producer, to me that is the highest quality. Are you familiar with Slow Food?

We are slow foodies, we love the experience.

You understand in slow food it is about the sourcing as well. Knowing just the place from which the ingredients came, the care in which they were raised, etc. It does definitely seem as though the world, at least let's call it Gourmet Guy's World, to use that term, are people who are conscious and want to connect to others and to the world around them, really caring and going against this fast food madness.

They're going back to the roots and the artisanal ways, so I choose the Camerenas because of their slow food approach. There is absolutely nothing  artificial or chemical that has anything to do with their growing or our tequila. 
It started with having a tequila that I knew was really the best after all of my experience with tequila. In my book and many other people's book, the best that we could produce. What if we could combine this highest quality with something else? What if I joined tradition and heritage of 73 years of tequila making with something new and innovative? What if we played with the idea of terroir beyond tequila Valley versus Los Altos, the highlands. I said to the Camerenas, could we actually produce single field, in this case, single rancho batches. They said absolutely, they have 50 separate ranchos distinct, differently named fields of tequila. This was pioneering and experimenting, let's see what we come up with. This is going to be something totally new, It's pioneering and experimenting.

I'm fascinated that's why I'm not jumping in here. How were you going to relegate the time of how long it takes? You've got this 2009 batch and effectively won't produce another batch for another 8-10 years.

Correct, that's it.

What happens in the meantime?

Let me explain it to you like this. Some people ask me how do we know which field to harvest. I answer we don't pick it, it picks us. Meaning out of all the Camerenas holdings, they have around 2 million agaves. It takes about 8 kilograms to make 1 liter of Ocho. An average agave heart, pina, is on average about 35 kilograms. Each plant we get around 5 liters per plant.

Of those, what is the attrition rate to Afrian Fungus?

As far as I've learned from the Camerenas we haven't lost any to the plague. They raise their agaves so healthily with no chemical pesticides or herbacides. They feel that if a field is sprayed with chemicals, the plants get weak are not resistant and then they catch diseases.

They're raising them to be a more resistant plant, not coddling them so to speak.

Out of those 2 millions plants scattered among those 50 different fields, they are in different levels of maturity. Carlos has a University Degree in Agave, he's called a licensed tequilero, he's very knowlegeable and experienced in making sure that if there is a shortage, he has enough planted in the cycle so he's not going to run out. Honestly, I'm partnered with, in my view, present day, the top masters of tequila.

When we get an order out of the US, England or France, we'll harvest the plants in the field that are the most ripe and ready. In some cases if we take a field like Las Pomez, the next field that we're going to release in the US, it is already in England. It took three years to completely harvest. That means when they went out first in the field, let's say out of 10 plants, they may have harvested two.

I understand, if you harvest too soon you don't have enough sugar, too old, they're gone.

They'll go out there and harvest two in the first instance, they'll come back in 6 months and harvest another one or two and so on. Some people (other growers) go out and harvest the whole field. Economically it is much better to harvest that way. Some say it is better for uniform, but not from my perspective. Others have very fine tequilas that harvest that way. Once a field it totally harvested, I went to the last harvest for our tequila, and some of those agaves were so ripe they were rotting in the field. They lost probably 5% of the volume just by rotting. But that's the way they like their tequila, and the way I like my tequila. It is an incredibly round, sweet tequila which is partially the result of extremely ripe agave. Once that field is finished, they're either going to let it sit fallow, to gather its energy back up, plant it with corn or some other crop to regenerate the soil, or replant it with agave.             Next column..

In the case of replanting agave, they're going to put little pups (baby agave shoots) in that are maybe 1 year old. It'll take another 8-9 years before those are going to be ripe. Las Pomez was 9 years+ of age when we harvested.

It will be another 9 years+ before we see Las Pomez on the market again. Will it be the same? It will probably be different due to the climatic conditions, just as a vintage Chambeau  Lucinee 1991 is going to be different than 1993.

Same basic applications that apply to wine.

I cannot say to you and the readers that is absolutely the truth, but I think everything would indicate that. I can't say what a nine year cycle of different weather will do. I would say that it would have a giant influence on it, but we don't know yet. It's the same thing with this terroir, we don't know what difference is created in one field or another. But we're playing with it and having a lot of fun with it.

What is it interesting about that, for people like you or me, who are ensconced in tequila, and this is my thinking, I wouldn't want it to be the same as this year's.
 
That is probably part of the Slow Food Nation mind. We are not looking for uniformity are we?

No, I want unique. I want each tequila to have its own unique characteristics.

Absolutely. You would love Mrs. Jones' cheese to have a little different something to it than Mrs. Smith's. That's our mentality and I hope it's a growing mentality on other people's part as well.

I think it's the people who drink it (tequila)the way we drink it, as opposed to those who do shots, for example. We've bastardized the tradition with salt and lemon here in the U.S. Folks who do shots are more interested in the effects rather than the taste. Those people aren't even getting what we're talking about here. (no offense to you shot lovers)

That's a very good point. The idea is we would celebrate this wine being a little different one year to the next. We're not wanting it to be like milk, we don't want it homogenized.

For the collector, when I purchase a bottle in 2019/2020 and it is a completely different bottle than my 2009, which I have not opened, my 2009 will be worth a bit of money.

I'm glad you mentioned collecting, because it has already started. There is a really fine young bartender in London, Ago Pavoni, has been trying to get his hands on 2007 La Rivera Blanco and Elver Hill Reposado, but there's none left. We're hanging on to the those bottles we've got and have put them into a reference library for later on to do comparible tastings.
I recently got a forward from out UK importer, it was from an American, James and he's looking for those same bottles. I said "I'm looking for them too and I'm saving everything I've got." These bottles are already being collected and showing their rarity.

You brough your vast knowledge, not only as a tequila veteran, but also a conneiseur of terrior wines to the table. They, the Camerenas, brought the agave. Yours was the idea to take it in a different direction?

Yes and I think the reason the Camereanas were suggested to me is that I had known them for 5 years prior. They knew me as a very sincere person, who appreciates tequila deeply. I've written and spoken about it, I've been graciously recognized by the Mexican government.

Were you the Tequila Ambassador to Europe prior getting in touch with them (the Camerenas)?

Yes. Forty (40) of the Tequileros, came to London, including Carlos Camerenas, the first time ever, still to this day, that that many important tequila personalities came to any other place outside of Mexicoat one time. There was an opening of an art exhibition and the President of Mexico was there, it was a big deal.

What do you have planned for the next few years?

Personally, I'm looking after my restaurants, located around the world, Cafe Pacifico & my  La Perla Bar. We'll also be launching our tequila line in August at the Bar Show in Sydney. We have a show in Paris, The Tequila Embassay in London and a show in Cote d'Azur.

80 Proof - 40% Alc. tequila, is being used to make diamonds for industrial and commercial use. Obviously the are too small for the jewelry industry, but how fascinating. Diamonds out of tequila!

It's amazing what technology can do today.

 What's your thoughts on con gusano? Obviously only in Mexcals....

When I was thinking of the worm (it's actually a moth larvae) that lives in the agave.
I've seen eau de vie with a snake in it. I've heard in Vietnam they have alcohol in a big urn with an unborn monkey fetus in it. What do I find about the three that is similar? They are preserved no matter what the liquid. Years agao, I imagine they may have put the worms in there to show the proof,  that the tequila would 'keep' it. In recent years, it has become a marketing ploy. Now all that is regulated and the proof has to be on the bottle. It's no longer necessary, but that's my take on it. Although other people have shared with me that they believe the same thing.

You are the tequila expert, and I'm quite  familiar with tequila, but I'm hungry for more information. As a seasoned tequila drinker, what should I be looking for when I drink it.

Be open minded, try a number of different tequilas. I would suggest trying them in a bar rather than buying 25 different bottles and finding you don't like 24 of them. (Laughter) Try a whole range and see which one suits your taste. Drink out of a real tasting glass. The  more you get into it, the more you realize the stuff you don't know. One of the fellows that I recently had a conversation with Mark Ridgewell, a specialist in Bourbon Whiskey, he told me they have been experimented and tested glasses with cognac. They discovered pretty conclusively that a cognac snifter is not the best glass to drink cognac.
A fluted wine glass would work, a proper ISO tasting glass, Riedel tequila glass or even a cognac snifter is better than an open glass like a shot glass. It really does make a difference, the glass, the temperature and the aeration to it.
You don't have to drink a lot. Smell it. I suggest that people take notes on what they're smelling. I try to get people to ask themselves questions. What is it I'm smelling or tasting? Then write it down. Involve the brain in the process. Do it over and over again, once again it's like a sport, the more you practice the better you get. Do it blind so you don't know the brand or the price. Often, we are tricked into believing it's better due to the name or cost.

Let's take the other end of the spectrum, the new tequila drinker. Would you suggest the most bold plato or an anejo, which is more mellow to ease in?

Very good question and we train our bartenders on this. We'll go through the 60-80 tequilas that we have and try to get them to know each one is it forward or recessive (Don Julio).  Read the customers and then suggest the appropriate tequila. We give the beginner a soft, not masculine tequila to start with. The best way to learn about tequila.....is simply try it.